Author: Hubbard, L. R.
Document date: 1958, 4 August
Document title: Case Analysis - Rock Hunting - Q & A Period
Document type: lecture transcript
Event: Twentieth American Advanced Clinical Course
Location: Washington, DC
Document ID: 20ACC-28
Description: Hubbard answers a question about God (the eighth dynamic); raises the philosophical question about whether we are all one or whether we are individuals; discusses the failure of Buddhism and jealousy; says the thetan in his own universe has always been God; says he gets upbraided every six months or so for running down Yahweh and not letting people believe in their gods; says religion is a subjective affair and about the only thing you can do is point out the errors of past religions.
Male voice: Ron, in running my particular case and trying to put it on all eight dynamics, I have a horrible time when I get to the eighth dynamic1. I cannot conceive of it without flipping back to the first. So I’m wondering what is the eighth dynamic?
Yeah, well that’s – I’ve told you many times that when you get the first clean and clear, you can certainly see the eighth. You get the rest of them clean and clear, you can see the eighth and all of the explanation in the world does not enter in as any substitute for it. In other words, that’s an unexplainable phenomenon. That’s another isness for which we don’t have adequate language.
Male voice: Do you mean that we can’t see it as a Scientologist?
It’s pretty hard to do. It’s pretty – pretty doggone hard to do. I could go as far as to give you some kind of a jackleg trumped-up explanation of the thing and generally don’t deal in such things. They’re just suppositions as far as I’m concerned.
See, the whole thing hinges on the fact of: are we all one or are we individuals? Now, to do that with any subjective reality is the only way you can do that; you can’t take it as an intellectual dose. This is one of the things that a person solves for himself.
The Buddhists have tried to hand it out as an intellectual dose and wherever Buddhism has failed, it’s because that dose has failed, see? Now, the next thing that we run into with regard to a computation between the two is rivalry – jealousy. The individual that conceived of another individual being God in a particular universe, he became very jealous of the other individual, you see? And we get a lock2 on the God computation. We normally run into the lock of jealousy, and you can possibly even remember in this lifetime when you heard about God creating everything and you said, “Well, I – I – doesn’t seem very real to me. I – I had a hand in this,” you said, even if you were a little kid.
And so there’s that jealousy computation. Then we run into something else. What universe are we talking about? If you’re talking about the thetan’s own universe, of course he’s always been God in that, but is the thetan’s own universe the MEST universe, you see? And if this is the case, why, all right and if it isn’t the case, all wrong, see? Now, a fellow has to become subjectively reconciled to the idea that this is or is not his universe. So that’s another question that has to be answered and that is answered with its greatest reality, not as a string of words, but as a fellow taking a look at it, see? Now, a Scientologist can know vividly what he is trying to answer, and that is a long way along the line. But for somebody to come along and announce an answer to this particular little conundrum, overriding anybody else’s reality on the situation and the back reverses and so forth.
You’ll find out there’s only one thing I get criticized for. Once in a while I get criticized because I won’t let people help me while I’m demanding that they help me. That’s very funny. I get a letter every once in a while, “You won’t let me help and that makes me very mad at you,” and so forth, “because you won’t let me help.” And you look back in the files – you’ve actually asked the guy to do something, you know, and this wasn’t evidently real as help.
So you get this other one. Periodically, I’d say once every six months, I receive a resounding upbraiding of magnitude on the subject of refusing to let people believe in their own gods – tampering with other people’s gods and that sort of thing – running down Yahweh and so forth. The people that write these things – they don’t know what god they’re talking about. They don’t know anything about it at all. Is it Vishnu they’re talking about? Is it Yahweh? Is it Christian church Jehovah or the three gods of the Catholic church, or what is it? What are they talking about? They just say, “God!” Well, this is wholly uninformative and we’re off to the races at once.
Now, I think that almost any Christian will agree with you when you say, “Christian practice has left something wanting in an optimum picture – the practice of Christianity as it has been practiced.” That’s a good thing or a bad thing in the final aggregate – simply depends on this thing that every cure eventually becomes a disease.
Along about the fourteen hundred and ninety, something like that, about the time that people came over to discover America for Spain (its already having been discovered several times – like Lindbergh, the sixty-fourth man to fly the Atlantic but now he’s the first man that flew the Atlantic, you know?), why, Ferdinand pulled into Spain, as a method of taxation, because he was always broke and he was pretty chichi anyhow – he was a very little man and Isabella was quite a girl, from the history books – and Ferdinand, to get going on his always depleted purse, instituted the Inquisition.
And a very sincere fellow named Torquemada was appointed by him – over Isabella’s dead body, practically – to become the total head of the Inquisition of the Catholic church in Spain. And Torquemada took his job very much to heart! Nobody doubts his sincerity or his service facsimile.
Male voice: Oh, boy.
But here this fellow Torquemada was in actuality only serving Ferdinand’s exchequer, because everybody who was found to be an heretic, of course, had to surrender all of his lands and goods to the Crown – first to the church and then to the Crown – and the Crown really got them, but the church got a large whack out of them before the Crown did. And so anybody who was rich could be communized – I mean excommunicated. Very, very little difference between basic Christianity and basic communism, by the way. That’s why they don’t fight. You wonder why the churches don’t clean up on communism. They have no interest in cleaning up on communism. They themselves have been communistic too long. And you don’t even find them getting angry, really – which they should.
But here you had an argument there which put the final stain on Christianity. In England all you’ve got to do is talk about churches and so forth – almost anybody in any shop or the street and they spit! You know, they’d say, “Dah – church,” you know? But, you see, it became the disease. But remember it was a tremendous cure for about fifteen hundred years. It was a big cure. Cured the world of the Roman Empire. That was its basic purpose. It cured the world of independent gods and spirits. Practically nobody here that didn’t get hit in the head somewhere along the track – as you’ll find out in running it – by the ingress of Christianity into your area.
People got too many engrams3 on the subject, that’s all; and you start explaining religion and you’ve had it. Religion is a subjective affair. About the only thing you can do is point out the errors of past religions, and you can point out some of them and people feel a little easier about it occasionally. They say, “Yeah, well, that’s true.” But as far as telling the man exactly how he got at cross-purposes with what he once considered God, is a highly individual activity. You know, they got at odds in various ways.
Hubbard, L. R. (1958, 4 August). Case Analysis – Rock Hunting – Q & A Period. Twentieth American Advanced Clinical Course, (20ACC-28). Lecture conducted from Washington, DC.